Sunday, March 11, 2012
Tragedy
Is there any better reason for the United States to get out of Afghanistan-- now? The reason for this is the same for the killings in our country-- out of control people with guns. How dare we inflict that on other countries.
It seems to me we need a smaller military with better quality control. Not exactly talking points either political party is using with the exception of Ron Paul. You know this violence, that is part and parcel of fighting wars, does come back home in both attitude and emotional consequences.
We need to rethink some of our policies and take responsibility for something that although it might only have been one out of control man, why did he have a gun and why was he in our military? And if only one person did the killings, there were a bunch of soldiers there who the citizens claimed were drunk and laughing. It should make us all sick and willing to rethink what the heck we are doing. We should demand our leaders do likewise! You cannot repay something like this.
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19 comments:
Amen!!
First of all Rain, let's get all of the facts before we rush to judgment. It's Afghanistan. If that soldier did kill those civilians in cold blood he deserves to forfeit his life. We need to leave Afghanistan and let them do as they always have done. It is not worth one American life. And remember that the Afghans have been known to murder too, but they label this killing "un Islamic". How about all murders the Taliban have committed being labeled in the same way? Murder is murder period !
I did put up two links on it, Paul.
And I know they have a lot of violence but this will make it worse for our soldiers who are as horrified by this as we are. It's a very violent time worldwide; but if just burning their Koran would inspire the almost zombie like reaction we saw, this could be worse-- or maybe not. Maybe human life isn't as big a deal to them as the religious book. I don't know but what you said is what I think-- we should get out of that region and stick to special ops actions when we need them. Wars should either be all out or gotten out. This is a terrible thing we are asking the military to do-- sort of fight a war and sort of keep the peace. Colin Powell said it well years ago-- the military is to break things and kill people-- when it's not, we are kidding ourselves.
I know there is a lot of talk that our leaving Iraq will lead to more violence there. Maybe so but that's something they need to work out and same with Afghanistan. I don't think Obama was right to extend our stay there after we got Osama. We cannot give them our form of government.
And the killings at Fort Hood by a mentally deranged soldier was an example of our need for mental health evaluations that get people who aren't stable out of the military. Now how that helps the rest of us who might have our kids in a school or be going shopping or to an innocent political meeting, I cannot say; but at least within the military we should know that those guys are well 'vetted' for wont of a better word. It's not safe for the other soldiers either.
What is so horrifying about his event, to people like me, was all the children he killed. That's always the worst :(
Andrew Sullivan says it well
One cannot train men (and women) to kill effectively and then be surprised when it grows to blind hatred and agony.
We also have a volunteer military which pretty much exempts (except for a few) those who are not poor and probably see this as their salvation.
Andrew Sullivan did indeed say it well. What a horrible tragedy. What in the world was that soldier thinking? To massacre children is the most horrible thing imaginable.
I have long believed we need to get out of Afghanistan...and this latest incident only drives that belief home.
This is frightening!!!! You and Andrew Sullivan have done a great job!!!! We need to get the hell outta there!
"...we should know that those guys are well 'vetted'...."
My opinion:
You make a true statement - with the emphasis on should. Unfortunately, this is an artifact of our having an all-volunteer military. We should either have conscription of able-bodied, able-minded people from across the spectrum of our populace, or the military should be disbanded. Too many corners are cut in trying to meet recruitment quotas.
Cop Car
The soldier who committed murder of civilians had performed 3 tours of duty in Iraq and now one in Afganistan. This goes beyond what we should expect of willing volunteering even of mentally healthy individuals.
I just hope the military doesn't hide the motivations, any evidence that someone knew ahead of time that the sergeant was breaking down. I also think they need to answer the Afghan statements that there was more than one soldier involved. Were additional soldiers those there to get him, as they knew he was on a rampage, or was there more to this? We better not hide anything from the Americans or the Afghan people. We know after the shooting in Fort Hood that there were those concerned with that officer. Was that the case this time or did he really just blow up? All such shootings, anywhere in the world, never make sense to me.
I want to see the truth come out. The man had 4 tours and that is too much stress for anyone. I can on;y imagine what he has seen. Violence numbs a person. If he murdered those innocent people he deserves the maximum penalty. We should leave Iraq and Afghanistan. Even now the war drums are beating with regard to Iran.
Western soldiers now in Afghanistan are trapped in a war they know---and have been told by their superiors that---they can't win. A war where there is little direct combat but a lot of sitting around being picked off by IEDs. They are stuck there until the official pull-out. Not to mention the guys who re-up 2 and 3 times. Crazy-making?!?
Not to excuse the horror of brutalizing civilians, women and children in their homes. Just that war is bad for everybody and the sooner Western soldiers get out of there the better. Our soldiers (there are currently 1,000 Canadian military "consultants" there) are not liberating anybody.
The best people to solve Afghan problems are Afghans. When we hear thousands of them pleading for us to send soldiers then maybe we should consider it, but I for one am not hearing that.
BTW, some photos at the bottom of this post that give a little of the flavour of what is happening in Afghanistan.
I agree. We need to get out. We just handed the Taliban an excuse which they are always looking for. On the one hand what annoys me is they slay innocents also but that doesn't rile them up. We let them have an excuse by staying.
I understand why the pressure has been on to stay as it is said anything less is letting down the Afghan people. The thing is we can't fix it for them. And what we can do by staying is give a chance for this kind of thing to happen.
Frankly someone who goes off as this man did, he could do it in any American community also-- and they have. We need a better way to assess the mental health of those we train to use guns, expect them to kill, and then pretend they are as they were before. But we need that in our schools also and we obviously don't have that either right now.
Thank you for that good link, Annie. To be sure everyone sees it, I'll post it in its own comment. Americans need to be aware.
Be at least a little ashamed.
Hiding our head in the sand won't cut it. It will just guarantee another 9/11. I hope our leaders are paying attention to how we seem to the Afghan people.
I agree. This was Horrendous!!
To respond to Tabor and Cop Car. There have been times when recruiters did take almost anybody with a pulse. But now that Obama is laying off over 100,000 people from our military, they are a little more picky in whom they take.
As for the military being a way out of the ghetto for the poor, that has been that way for 3,000 years and not likely to change anytime soon. But of the 11 kids from my son's high school class that I know that joined the service only one of them was from what I would call a "working class" family. Yes he had lived part of his life in a mobile home, but he still had his own cell phone and was able to play sports. The rest came from middle and upper middle class families.
This is a horrible event and will make the lives of the rest of the Americans both military and civilian in Afghanistan more dangerous. I cannot imagine what could have caused him to snap to the level of killing children. This was not some kid that just finished basic training and got thrown into a meat grinder. This guy had been in for several years.
Since this sergeant had been in the military for a number of years, his fourth tour into danger, it's obvious it's not the training. It's mental health evaluation as well as what does it do to these people who have been in combat over and over? What makes some break and others able to manage it-- as he's not the only one with that many tours into danger. I just hope we get some answers as when you read the eye witness accounts, it sounds like he was methodical in what he was doing. Why?
Agree, time to get out.
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