Comments, relating to the topic, are welcome, add a great deal to a blog, but must be in English, with no profanity, hate-filled insults, or links (unless pre-approved) To contact me with questions: rainnnn7@hotmail.com.




Saturday, September 03, 2011

Religion questions

Warning: even though I don't write about partisan issues here, I do write about cultural ones. Religion is as negative for some to discuss as politics-- the two no-nos of polite conversation. Well you cannot discuss religion in this country today without it getting political. So a smattering of politics will follow. I want to add-- I don't like writing about this anymore than some of you will like reading it. I am concerned about our country and sometimes you can't ignore what you see. You have to take a stand and speak your piece... as the cowboys say :).


"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."     Mahatma Gandhi

I don't know if any of my readers can help me with a couple of questions but they have been bothering me regarding the religion calling itself Christianity today.

The first is hard for me to even write about because it's filled with contradictions but I'm going to give it a shot. When I pass some churches, I almost always read the little signs they have outside, you know the ones that come out a book of such quotes (yes, when I used to go to Christian bookstores, I saw the books). The message of the average such sign is (like the one I saw driving home from town the other day) that God/church can solve their problems and more importantly if the reader has problems, it's because God isn't ruling their lives and they are.

It's about me is presented as a problem when you consider the meaning of that message. Down with ME.

And yet, the big push by the religious right today, which has become a political movement, is that government (which in the United States is all of us together) is the problem. Their big quote is-- you can manage your money better than the government (don't ask how you build bridges with that view as this is not about logic).

In short what they are saying is-- It's about me is the solution. Way to go ME power!

I get it why a secularist might say such a thing. I get it for someone who is into an independence movement or those who believe in the Western mythology of individualism. I get it how someone who followed a very conservative view of life that some people are profligate and if they worked harder, it'd have gone better.   

But a Christian? Isn't it kind of a contradiction to the Christian who is taught by Christ that we are all ONE in God and we owe not just our religious brothers but all brothers (check out story of the Good Samaritan in New Testament) whatever help we can give because when we do it for the least of us, we do it for God.

Confusing the issue, for me, is one of the political arms of the religious right where I see things like this: FAMiLY means the family takes precedent over the individual. This movement is pressuring politicians to sign away their future autonomy in voting in order to receive the support of the FAMiLY movement to get elected.

FAMiLY clearly is taking ME out of the picture... It's all about them and what they consider important.

How does that fit into the government the religious right wants? Or perhaps don't want and really just prefer that the church gains power and every other group loses it?

After I had been thinking about writing this, I saw the following article in a right wing newspaper column about how Democrats are inciting fear of people like Perry and Bachmann but that their fear is foolishness. So let me get this right. It's okay for candidates to emphasize their religious values to get votes but not okay for someone else to emphasize what those religious values mean practically speaking to block votes.


 It doesn't take any left wing group mandating feeling that we are in a religious conflict. It just takes listening to Richard Perry or Michelle Bachmann for awhile-- as you try to avoid having your head explode. It takes understanding that the only 'thinking' conservative running for the Republican nomination is Jon Hunstman and he's not religious or radical enough to suit this right wing movement.

So what is it for this bunch? Me is the problem or Me is the answer?

Here's the second question. Why do so many Christians feel they are being abused as though they have forgotten where they live and what their freedoms are in this country, forgotten that they are the dominant religion? If you criticize what is passing for Christianity* today, the righteous scream persecution.

Let's look at that concern. No candidate for the presidency could possibly win if they didn't proclaim themselves to be a Christian-- this is true right or left wing. In the Republican party of today, they have to be a fundamentalist Christian to boot. There are churches in every town and they all are tax free. The donations to the church all count as a tax deduction. And with all of that, they feel put upon. Does it go with the territory?
* What someone says they are, doesn't mean it's what they are. Words are cheap and actions not so much. I believe there is a movement in this country calling itself Christian; but if you look at the teachings, the actions, and know the Gospels, you shake your head. Gandhi would like Christians who followed Christ's teachings; so it's not about true Christianity that he was speaking but something that's been with us a long time where it comes to that religion. Andrew Sullivan calls this movement christianists and I think for good reason.

Third question doesn't really relate to Christianity specifically. Would people value human life more if they were agnostics or atheists? I mean let's consider how many wars are encouraged by religious leaders and their teaching of a reward in heaven and life after death-- not just the Crusades, not just the religious right permeating our military with requirements to attend religious meetings, not just the current Islamic terrorist movement--but all of them.

Does war end up happening mostly because people believe there is an afterlife or they will come back again? What if they thought-- this is it for all of us? Dust to dust. One precious chance for life. Would anyone believing that way be so quick to throw away lives-- those of others or their own?

The photos are of my blooming rose of sharon, a plant I love, which is symbolically taken to mean Christ in the Bible. I have three of them and always love the late summer when they bloom. It can also be called a hibiscus.  I used it for the title in one of my manuscripts because of the way pioneer women would bring the cutting with them to Oregon and from a narrow little stick would come this beautiful flowering bush. In symbolism, it's rich.

22 comments:

Anonymous said...

Rain--Thanks for a thoughtful posting. I quite believe that those for whom this is their only life are more humane than most religious adherents.
I find the least manageable aspect of the actions of most of the public personas who put themselves forth as "religious" is their hypocricy.
Cop Car

Anonymous said...

John 3:16

Rain Trueax said...

Anonymous, that is what Christians are taught and through it justify not valuing human life which means who cares about loss of it for a noble cause-- like say a war. It is why this religious group is so active in militaries where you can get soldiers to think it's okay to die and they will be rewarded whether it's 70 virgins or palaces in heaven and crowns. I am not saying there are not causes worth dying for either. But not because of a heavenly reward if someone doesn't buy that. Because of improving life for others here on earth. That's more noble in my opinion than I get 70 virgins up there...

Rain Trueax said...

I should add when Christians keep their views of things like eternal life to their personal lives and their churches, there isn't a problem; but when they move into the political realm and use their religion almost like a hammer to both threaten and justify political stances, then it goes beyond whether they believe in eternal life for themselves but more than that what would they make of life on this earth? I know Christians who work in their communities, who follow the directions in the Gospels as best they can for their lives not depending on-- I am just a sinner but forgiven to justify what they do. I also know those who use their religion as an excuse for their selfish desires and twist what Jesus said about how to live life on earth-- and this is about life on earth as what happens afterward nobody can know for sure.

Jesus said a lot about how to live, how to not judge others, how to watch even our thoughts. It's not hard to figure out what Jesus said (or at least was recorded later as being said by him). What is hard is to figure out how that leads to someone like Perry.

There are, and always have been, those who use religion for their own selfish gain. They manipulate through righteous words while they hunt like a predator. The Gospels talked about them also...

Anonymous said...

Rain--As you probably surmised, it was not I who left the reference to scripture. I will always let you know when I leave a comment - even if I have to leave a second comment 'fessing up to having forgotten to put my screen name. (And you know the real name that goes with my screen name.)
Cop Car

Rain Trueax said...

I definitely knew that CopCar. I feel I know you from your blog. Which, of course, I don't really but it feels that way sometimes when you have read someone over a period of years.

Diane Widler Wenzel said...

Love the purity of the Rose of Sharon and your illustration.

Kay Dennison said...

The Rose of Sharon has a special significance for me and you included my favorite words from Gandhi so you had my interest/attention from the start!

I have stopped calling myself a Christian. Partly because I don't want to be associated with people like Rick Perry, Michele Bachmann, et al who give lip service to their faith but do evil in its name.

At this point, I have all but given up "the audacity of hope."

Celia said...

A very good post Rain. I wish I had answers for you. After spending the 60's as a young adult I concluded everything is political, including religion and have seen nothing yet to change my mind. The religious corporations are a large and scary as any I have seen. I was Catholic in my youth, and am the offspring of PHD biologist, also a former Catholic. Another long story. I try to follow Christ's teachings and the teaching of Thich Nhat Hanh, which I am sure will cause some to say "you're not a Christian."

I cannot understand the positions of Perry, Bachmann, and the like, or their ignorant, heartless positions. Like Kay, I no longer identify myself as Christian. I don't buy the "I am forgiven stance," and I think if you are still not loving your neighbor and being a steward for our earth you are kidding yourself about being a Christian, or who you are. I do go to church, how much longer I'm not sure. I am teaching Sunday School, I have six grandkids in this church and I want to share my voice in church with them, there are many here who do not agree with me so we will see how long I last. I likely will end up celebrating the great creator out in the peace and green of the woods again. As for our, the USA's, constant warring around the world, you don't have to be a Jesus freak to get the meaning of "Thou shalt not kill," or Bhudda's "do no harm." It's just wrong and based on greed in my opinion.

mandt said...

Superb post Rain, well done. My thinking on it: If Christians don't follow the following they are false: Matthew 5: 3-12

Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are they who mourn,
for they shall be comforted.

Blessed are the meek,
for they shall possess the earth.

Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for justice,
for they shall be satisfied.

Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall obtain mercy.

Blessed are the pure of heart,
for they shall see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called sons of God.

Blessed are they who suffer persecution for justice sake,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

The truth of the above applies to all conscious human beings religious, secular or other. Today's American fundamentalists are just fascists dressed up in Old Testament tribalism and 'fundamentally' ignorant of the revolutionary thinking in New Testament Christianity, Some words are not cheap and nothing says value like Matthew 5 3-12

Anonymous said...

Rain--I think the, often, we get to know the down under (inside) blog friend even better than we get to know face-to-face friends.

I may not subscribe to John 3:16; but, it and the Beatitudes carry lovely thoughts.
Cop Car

OldLady Of The Hills said...

That quote by Ghandi id deeply profound,and says it all, dear Rain. And you elucidate it all, further, after that. Great Post, my dear.

The Rose Of Shannon is very very BEAUTIFUL!

Annie said...

I think the problem with some christianity is that Jesus' teachings are interpreted in an exclusionary way rather than an inclusive way. John 3:16 a case in point. Nowhere does it say that everyone else will go to hell but that seems to be the interpretation some put on it. If god so loved the world why would he/she/it do that?

Darlene said...

Deep thoughts, Rain.

I no longer believe in a 'hereafter' and I believe that the Bible was written by men and, as such, is deeply flawed. It was written for the time and culture that existed then.

Fundamentalists believe in many things taken from the Old Testament that are contrary to Christ's teachings. Didn't Christ say he came to bring a new testament, thereby nullifying many of the Old Testaments teachings? Therefore, for example, when Fundamentalists teach that homosexuality is a sin they are basing it on the ignorance of the time in which it was written.

I have come to the conclusion that all religions began out of fear of the unknown. All religions (pagan and otherwise) try to answer the unanswerable and all have morality teachings to keep people civilized. I could expound on this for a long time, but I think this is the gist of my beliefs.

I doubt that a belief in the hereafter (or a lack, thereof) has little bearing on why men go
to war.

I think people's beliefs are those which makes them comfortable. No one can answer the mystery of death and so we all find our own answers in the way that fits in with our personalities.

janinsanfran said...

I call myself a Christian -- there's something in that metaphor (and history) that I find evokes the best as well as the worst of a suffering human condition. I am fortunate to belong to a small Christian community that is the most multi-class grouping I've ever known, though certainly not always the most functional. We're broken, like most human groups. But I think that together we make it easier for each of us to be good. That's a lot.

My reaction to right-wing Christianity is to wonder: do these people (the leaders, not their followers) actually believe this stuff or do they just use it for power? I'm serious. The earth is not flat, it's been around more than 6000 years and the climate is getting warmer. These are facts. Deny facts and minimally you stub your toe; you also risk driving off a cliff. Maybe you end up rich, but eventually nature and mortality (or God) wins.

As for wars -- I think these have a lot to do with "honor" and testosterone poisoning. Also profits. A belief in individual immortality may contribute, but I doubt if it is necessary. The modern originators of suicide bombing as a terrorist tactic were Buddhists not usually thought to be into "pie in the sky when we die" -- they were Tamil Tiger nationalists in Sri Lanka. That bad idea proved contagious.

Rain Trueax said...

When someone says they are a Christian, does that mean they believe in the virgin birth, the physical resurrection of the body to live in heaven with God forever after as described at the end of Revelations? Or does it mean they are someone inspired by the life of Christ whatever that might lead to without necessarily expecting a heavenly reward?

Interesting on the origin of terrorist tactics. Obviously it can work and has been used many times including certain Jews to get the British to leave Palestine. It appears to be a last resort but generally it's been with peoples who did believe in an afterlife or reincarnation.

Robert the Skeptic said...

As an Atheist I am troubled by the blatant hypocrisy of the evangelical and pentecostal sects of Christianity. Yet often I find myself defending Christians among my Atheist friends. There are many who I refer to as "Jimmy Carter Christians" who practice the principles of the New Testament. They are diametrically opposed to who I also call the "Christian Taliban" who would establish a theocracy here.

But statistics are showing that the right-wing Christians are on the decline. Younger people are eschewing them in droves - ethnic and gender intolerance does not sit well with the young in this country, fewer people consider themselves "religious", church membership is in decline. It's a welcome sign to me.

janinsanfran said...

FWIW: I hover somewhere in between these two poles: When someone says they are a Christian, does that mean they believe in the virgin birth, the physical resurrection of the body to live in heaven with God forever after as described at the end of Revelations? Or does it mean they are someone inspired by the life of Christ whatever that might lead to without necessarily expecting a heavenly reward? I believe our current civilization is metaphor-deficient and unable to apprehend some realities that have been known to other humans.

No, those realities don't include the Virgin Birth as far as I'm concerned! But they might include spiritual forces that can't be well observed by the scientific paradigm. :-) Re life after death in any personal sense, I'm agnostic.

Rain Trueax said...

Thank you, Jan. I genuinely was interested. I can see why people want a spiritual community.

Fran aka Redondowriter said...

A very thought provoking post that I sure don't have the reasoning and knowledge to comment on authoritatively. I do know, however, that like most religions, Christianity comes in many different flavors. The religious right sure scares me; that much I do know.

TorAa said...

Rain,
I think you are on the very track in thoughts to create a better society.

As you might remember, we live in Norway. We have visiting several people incl Suzann, this July, and next July (2012) we will rent a house in SW Michigan.
Really hope you can join us there, to talk and even create ideas for a better society.

BTW. Suzann might give you my e-mail adress

joared said...

Interesting thoughts on religion and specifically Christianity. I just wish religions would decrease their covert and overt political activity. I find the blurring of the lines between religion and politics/government seriously troublesome.

I have a Rose of Sharon tree and a hibiscus plant and their flowers appear to me to be quite different, but I've never researched either.