It has been interesting to me as I have been reading what some are asking about whether to ask for forgiveness for Osama bin Laden or to wish him to be in hell.
As someone who doesn't believe in hell as such, obviously I'd never think of doing such a thing. IF I did believe in hell as a reward for misled human life, I'd even more so not wish anybody to be there forever. The thought of it is abhorrent to me.
On the other hand, no longer being a Catholic, I can't see my prayers for where bin Laden has ended up as having any weight at all. (That is if I did believe in a hell and heaven.) To me if there was, then it'd be what we did ourselves that would determine where we ended, not someone else praying us in or out of it.
Now I do believe it is a very important and positive thing that we don't hold a grudge or hate anyone, but that's for our own benefit not that of the one who we believe has wronged us.
One person said that the only one who should have a right to ask for forgiveness for bin Laden would be those who had been wronged by him. That doesn't make sense to me either as in a lot of ways he wronged all humans, perhaps Muslims most of all, as he misused a religion and deemed human life, including that of his own family, of no value. It appears he saw it all as with only one purpose worth sacrificing for-- and that was to gain power for his version of his religion.
I could agree with someone being executed for a crime when there is no doubt what they did and it is sufficiently horrifying to exact the ultimate price. I could also believe that the victim of that crime should not decide on the physical penalty but rather be decided by the society which has decreed what it must be for an ordered existence. We can after all be fooled and emotionally manipulated by those who claim to be sorry but are not. But to wish bad on the perpetrator in the next lifetime (if there is a next) or even to put them to death in a way that is not as merciful as possible that's beyond me. I would be afraid such a desire would bounce back on me.
Going along with this whole event, which has been pretty consuming, to at least our American and probably the Muslim culture, has been another event that kind of got swallowed in the hype. It was of the Catholic Church beatifying their last pope, John Paul II, because supposedly he has done enough miracles since he died.
I don't know about his 'miracles', but this is also the pope who during his lifetime made it easy for pedophile priests to not be punished, who was evidently part of a coverup which involved paying off victims to keep the misdeeds quiet, who allowed one molesting priest (pretty high up the chain if I remember right) to even live out his life in the Vatican to escape any penalty for his crimes. Despite that, he was much beloved by Catholics.
So on the same day some have been made heady that Osama bin Laden was killed, where others are in mourning that he is dead, there are yet others in ecstasy that their beloved 'Papa' was made into a saint. One (maybe more than one) even suggested it's that new saint who made possible the killing of the villain.
Oh I know... just coincidence that those two events came on the same day. I certainly don't believe one in heaven was making possible the killing of the other to be sent to hell. I do find it ironic though and see that both are from very strong religions and there is some religious ecstasy in both events, don't you think? So doesn't the timing seem just a little weird? It's a perfect plot device in a book-- except it'd seem contrived.
To me, it does point out the difference of two, very differently lived, prominent lives and the reactions other humans have had to them. I do see these events coming so close together is ironic (add in the newspaper announcement of Hitler's suicide May 1, 1945), but I do not think the recently sainted pope had anything to do with the killing of the terrorist (nor did Hitler).
But if it turns out that some someday claim the terrorist is busy doing miracles (would his have to be bad things to qualify?), that the home where he was killed, is being made into a shrine, that he is beatified by some in the Islamic faith, well it won't surprise me.
8 comments:
Religion confuses the hell out of me...so since there is no hell in me I really can't comment on this whole business. I am happy (relieved) that he is dead...I will not celebrate it but do mourn that he and others have become so screwed up in their lives.
Only God can forgive Rain...As for Hell we shall see...
well we can forgive but not for the question of heaven and hell. I find the idea that a god would create a hell for beings to suffer for eternity (just for not saying the right words or promising to give their lives to him) to be an abomination. What it would say about that kind of god is very scary. Very Greek gods type of thinking for what it would mean god was like.
And when Huckabee chuckled that Osama would be roasting in hell, that was icky to me. How can anybody who claims they are from a loving religion relish that kind of suffering for eternity? I have no use for who bin Laden was based on the harm he brought others, but he did it thinking he was doing it for god also.
I doubt Huckabee will run for president actually as he's simply too far out there religiously and making too much money at Fox to want to give it up.
I have also thought that if there was a hell, and we had loved ones who were sent there based on words they hadn't said or misdeeds they had done, but we loved them anyway, would heaven be heaven for us? It makes no sense at all that it would be so. So then they give everybody in heaven amnesia-- ah no longer remember granddad or a child. That's what heaven would be like? I realize that what doesn't seem logical or kind to me might be exactly what will be; but I won't think it was right if it is.. which means I am more likely to end up hell-- that lippy female *s*
I haven't believed in heaven or hell for years. To begine with, the concept of hell was borrowed from the pagan Greek religion. I think we make our own hell on earth.
I think the concept of heaven was a way of making people have hope of a better life if their life on earth was a miserable one. A way to feel that they would be rewarded for suffering on earth.
Also, the concept of heaven kept people in line. If they feared they would not get in heaven if they did bad things it made it easier to keep them moral.
I just think bin Laden is feeding the fish and if he is aware of his death he must be very disappointed that those virgins weren't waiting for him.
The ironies of perceptions of saint to evil doers causes me to wonder.
God, whoever she is, seems to have set the universe in motion. Except for natural diasters, I have to believe that on some level I don't understand, we choose the situations and circumstances.
Heaven and hell? Not like the Bible says, I don't think. I long ago stopped trying to figure it all out. I just know that I like practicing religion. It's my extended family and the wisdom is there if one can look beneath whatever the story is and the culture promotes.
As for Osama bin Laden, I put him to rest about five days ago in my mind. It will be interesting, if allowed, to find out what the wives knew. He was a powerful man and being his wife was undoubtedly very prestigious. Your readers may jump all over me, but he was a handsome man, but I'm glad they aren't showing the photos. There are enough images of people shot in the head around. I don't need to see him.
I am a skeptic in terms of believing the wives will be honest about any of this. Right now they have a position of power as his widows and it seems to me they will try to enhance that power through whatever they say about him. If they loved him, that would be even more so true. There are those women, who can live a lifetime off being the widow of a powerful man, thinking of George Custer's widow. We'll see what they do.
As for the photo, it would have been ghoulish to have the photos out there. I guess they will let legislators in certain key committees look if they so wish; but the public is too much into voyeurism as it is to feed that through the government's actions. Obama was right about it.
And... I also thought he was a handsome man with a lot of charisma-- if one only goes by what someone looks like. One wonders what he might have contributed to the world if he had chosen a higher path. Instead basically he chose a path that lowered himself and the world to a very base level far away from values that might've made it better for us all. A waste.
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