[Saturday morning update: There were two really good links in comments which I thought worth posting out here so no one misses them. The first is from Parapluie: Andrew Sullivan on who Obama is. These are both insightful and typical of Sullivan's logical way of approaching things. The second is from olpine43 (known to regular RainyDay readers as Farm Boss): We invaded to liberate.]
This is for those who don't get cable or may not have seen Keith Olbermann's MSNBC Special Comment on John McCain. Obermann uses McCain's own words to discuss his most recent comments about who cares if we stay in Iraq for a hundred years as long as soldiers aren't dying. I don't know how that fits with his tax cut rhetoric, but nothing McCain says makes much sense to me.
Yes, I understand how many people are tired of this, don't want to think, listen, or read more about it. I share those feelings that I'd like to just enjoy my life, work on my own problems, but something bigger than me is going on in our country. There is a struggle to see the United States turn away from the path it has been on. That struggle is not finished. It is not until November that we will know if we truly are starting on a new road.
Will it happen if enough voters are bamboozled by lies? It's been working in the past and this spring distortions and sly suggestions took Obama's numbers down even within the Democratic primaries. Fear of his middle name, that he's a Muslim, fear he's a secret terrorist come to destroy the whole country, that his wife is a racist, that he will spend all our money and put us into debt (oh wait that's been done so wouldn't represent change) and on and on and on. You think it was bad so far, just wait. It is repulsive, but can you afford to tune out and sit back?
My fear is because the Democratic primary has been hard fought that a lot of Democrats feel worn out. They feel it's done. Reality is it has just begun.
If we aren't getting involved in seeing who the next president will be, I hope we also won't be whining next year at this time if it turns out to be President McCain.
We do get the government we work for and scarily maybe the one we deserve. The bad part is sometimes when freedoms are thrown away, they cannot be retrieved without even more struggle.
It's hard for me to believe that anyone, Democrat or Republican, can see clips of McCain saying such totally contradictory things (and they are easy to find on YouTube) and not want to do whatever they can to see that the powers of this country are not put in that man's hands.
McCain is not a straight talker. He's either confused, can't keep track of what he says, or is a pathological liar who doesn't even know he lies. Most of us, when we have said contradictory things, we try to straighten it out and admit our earlier goof. He is counting on 'his' people not bothering to look at the actual clips and just trust him. Trust him to do what is what I'd like to know!
The recent Supreme Court decision for prisoners in Guantanamo saying that the United States lives under a Constitution and the statutes in it must be observed, is a good example of why this election matters so much. One Justice, one vote, made the difference. Everyone that Bush appointed, who was supposed to be moderate, were straight down the line believers in absolute power for the current administration and the Constitution? Oh it's just a piece of paper to forget when conditions warrant. One more judge will change that vote the next time it comes up.
What got me was the dissents from the supposedly Constitutionally caring judges as they said this will cost lives? Why? If the prisoners down there did crimes, what is to fear from a trial? A real trial? That's the way this country has always worked. If there is no evidence to hold a trial, how do we know they did anything wrong? Gut feeling? The power of the dictator?
McCain has assured us all that he will select more judges like the four that dissented on this opinion. He has reassured Americans that he follows in Bush's path. If that is reassuring to you, it's not to me. The idea that he would appoint more judges like Scalia, Thomas, Roberts, and Alito should be enough to get Democrats energized if nothing else can. We are holding on by a fingernail to the liberties we have valued so highly, that so many have died to get and then protect. Just one more judge...
Keith Olbermann YouTubes Parts 1 and 2:
27 comments:
Missed context at more than one level. What Olbermann, congress and the media are not talking about.. Oil and "Securing American Interests".
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/06/we-invaded-to-l.html#more
The oil scam that must go on. Attack now because we will not be able to later. WE NEED new thinking in government and in our daily living.
Olberman's commentary is confirming of my own convictions about McCain but I don't think his inflamed emotional speech would be good to show to my friends who are Republican and might cross over and vote for Obama.
A lot of republicans won't vote for Obama anyway but you know your friends and family better than I certainly do. I felt he became very emotional, not so much angry as upset as he thought about those who are fighting this war and the high price they are paying and after all of those comments by McCain who it seems enabled bush to keep the war going and wants to continue it who knows how long. Anything from 5 years to 100 if you go by his own words. I almost felt Olbermann might shed some tears as he seemed close to them while he spoke.
A year ago the conservatives were calling McCain an idiot and they were right. Now they're rallying behind him. I guess it makes sense if you want it to make sense.
Thoughtfully written, as always, Rain. I'm going to pass on watching the video as I'm pooped and ready for bed. And I know it will upset me.
Obama has my vote,but I still have a few reservations about him.However, McCain reminds me (too much I confess) of the current Bush and that sealed the deal as to how I shall vote.
Thank you olpine 43 for the connection to Andrew Sullivan. I couldn't bring up the link in the comment. The number after "dish/" is cut off. I did bring up the atlantic.com and found a well developed cool article www.theatlantic.com/doc/200712/obama/3. In the first two segments of his thesis he defined the challenges facing our nation in both internal and foreign policy. He examined how our polarization has not been resolved by recent presidents. In the third segment he relates how Obama who is intelligent and has leadership skills but so do others. What Obama has is a face and background that can unify and resolve our problems internal and foreign. The article said what I have been trying to articulate plus much more. Sullivan thinking was done so well, I printed it and will refer to it when I need to.
That is a really good link, Parapluie.
Sullivan Link
Conservatives are not really rallying behind McCain. We know that there is not really a republican running for president this year. But given the choice between a democrat and a socialist. We are choosing McCain the democrat. He is probably less conservative than JFK was.
Other than the part about being welcomed as liberators, McCain did not contradict himself or say anything that was not correct. If you really listen to what he is saying which Olberman does not do you can see that. Olberman just wants to spin and attack McCain. Just curious does he play quotes of Hillary defending her vote to go to war with Iraq? Olberman just makes me sick with his rabid hatred of anything republican. He was much better doing sports, should have stuck to it.
so it wasn't any difference to say we'd leave in 5 years versus stay there 100. Saying we'd be greeted as liberators made sense to you? McCain contradicts himself every time he turns around and he is NO democrat. He is a hardline Republican right winger in almost every way.
Just out of curiosity have you heard anybody on the right, most especially McCain say how this war is going to be paid for? Or how 58 bases that are permanent over there will be paid for?
If you think democrats are socialists then republicans are fascists who believe the state government has all the power including to lock up anyone with no trial.
Do you actually know what socialism means or are you just picking that up from right wing radio? It means a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole. So you think somehow that is what Obama is advocating? Amazing. This country has half the people who cannot even talk to each other.
As for Olbermann, he tore into Hillary as much as McCain. The Clintons hate him. He has a set of beliefs that he holds to and he comes down on anyone who goes against that. His comments are his opinion pieces and presented as that. This one was mostly McCain against his own words. You might want to relisten to it as I don't know how you can think he didn't say different things all along.
What I would like a straight answer to from you since you are the only right winger actually commenting here: How do you plan to pay for this war? Do you favor full benefits including medical for all who have fought in it? How do we fund 58 permanent bases in Iraq? Since you don't like the idea of trials for those held in Guantanamo, how long do you think you should hold them? How do you know there aren't more innocent people there? Who are you trusting for your information, the ones who told you Saddam had WMDs and it's why we were invading Iraq?
McCain is as bad or worse than Bush and how you can defend him based apparently on your fear you might have to pay a few dollars extra in taxes is beyond me. Especially during a time you defend a war that you won't pay a dime for.
Although your hearing only what you want to hear, listening to only what already suits you makes me think it won't get through to you but I hope you did read those two links on the Update. I keep thinking there is hope for people to see the world the same way but the fact that you listened to McCain say all of that and never saw a contradiction, makes me doubt it is possible.
I LOVE Keith Olbermann...And ALL that he stands for---(Watching him yesterday after they announced Tim Russerts sudden untimely death I think is what brought me to tears and broke my heart....You could see Keith, trying to hold on to his composure, over and over...It was deeply touching....)
I LOVE how you express so much of what I feel Rain...You write so brilliantly and with such a deep understanding of ALL that is at stake here...And, as you stated, it is a whole lot...! Just for the Justices alone.....! I do not know how anyone with half a brain could vote for McCain...If people do not see the horrific dangers here, it makes me wonder---Are they so asleep and out of touch with all the Freedons at stake here???
Keep on writing about this Rain, and posting the always brilliant "Special Comments" of Keith Olbermann....EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE AWARE AND VIGILENT!!!!!!
Thank you Rain, for your always thoughtful caring hearetfelt love of our country and it's future!
Thanks once again for your diligent research and bringing us the iceberg and not just the tip...
That second Olbermann video is about as powerful a statement as I've seen yet...
No saying we would be greeted as liberators is the main thing he got wrong in those clips. He did contradict himself on a couple of things, but it is not nearly as bad as Olberman makes it out to be. Most of the other stuff was correct if you listen to what he actually says instead of twisting it like Olberman is doing.
Yes I know what socialism is. Among other studies, I took both Politics of Third World Nations and US Politics from a self proclaimed socialist professor.
And that is exactly what Nancy Pelosi is advocating when she told the oil executives that if they didn't do what she wanted then she would nationalize the oil industry. Just like her friend Hugo Chavez did in Venezuela.
I think Obama's medical plan is to socialize medicine. Do you disagree?
You are correct I do not think prisoners at Gitmo should have access to the US legal system. They are not citizens and were not arrested on US soil. They should be given military tribunals. Many have already been released and some have been caught again trying to kill US soldiers after they were sent back. For some of them their home country will not take them back. What should we do with them?
I think we should pay for the war with the existing taxes that we pay in this country. And we should get a cut of the oil revenue in Iraq. The current government there wants our help with security then they should help pay for it.
Do you really think there are a bunch of innocent people in Gitmo? That we would go through all that trouble to get them all the way over here if we didn't have good reason.
I have written before about how people hear what they want or expect to hear and this is a good example. I cannot see McCain as you clearly do. I see him as not as knowledgeable as he claims, with less honor than he might've had at one time (then again maybe he never did), a man who doesn't need to know facts because he's made up his mind which is why he doesn't know how to use a computer. Something totally amazing to me in a United States Senator. So he knows what others tell him and it explains why he mixes up who shiites and sunnis are.
As for paying for this war with Iraqi war revenues, then who rebuilds their country? So far theird oil revenues haven't appeared to help much of anybody. We are paying a trillion dollars. That's a lot to expect to cut expenses. The truth is we won't pay for it. We will borrow on the future and the future's kids will have a tough world that they inherit after our responsibility. Bush has done quite a number on our economy and maybe deliberately. Then along comes McCain ready to follow along.
What Obama says about health care, so far, has been that all children should be covered. He has not made a proposal about universal mandatory health care for all adults. That was Hillary. So do you favor children having to go without health care because their parents don't care or can't afford it?
Nancy Pelosi is just one representative with one vote (I didn't hear her saying this as a serious proposal either but not to say she didn't). Her idea does not represent democratic thinking as a whole. In general democrats don't want to nationalize businesses. They do not want to nationalize health care either. They want to get insurance out of the business of insuring and put it into the hands of a government program like government does for itself, like the military has, like SS. But that is not Obama's plan at the moment.
I see McCain as anything but what he says he is; therefor what Olbermann says about him rang true to me. You saw it just the opposite because you think McCain is what he says he is. Most of McCain's proposals are the opposite of what I want though; so even if I thought he was an honorable man, which I do not, I would still not want him as president. He scares me as the idea of him being president. What kind of person thinks that bomb bomb bomb Iran to a Beach Boys song is funny? Especially weird from someone who has done some bombing even if very little given it was his first mission that he went down with.
Since I am a republican of course I want to see children and old people starve and suffer. No I do not want to see children go without health insurance.
And I think you and I agree on McCain more than you think. Personally I think that if you are a US Senator you should be barred from being President. Pretty much all of them seem worthless at this point.
Oh come on people have thought Bomb Iran sung to the tune of Barbara Ann has been funny since 1979 when the Hostages were taken at the US Embassy in Tehran.
I probably never would have found it funny but I bet a lot who would have at one time will now find it less so after these years with Bush as the one doing it. Remember his humorous attempt at trying to find WMDs in the white house? Jokes like McCain made aren't funny when it's someone who thinks it's a great idea
Normally I would have to say that McCain should leave the jokes to the comedians. But I saw him on Saturday Night Live and he was pretty funny. Actually a lot funnier than host Steve Carroll's opening monologue.
No, we canNOT afford to sit back and tune out! So bravo to you for saying these much-needed words and giving the info.
While I'm feeling more optimistic than I have in 8 years.....I'm STILL very leery! Frankly, I don't trust the American people. Plain and simple! WHO would have thought Bush would have been re-elected 4 years ago! AND YET...he was! So I'm reading, reading, reading, watching as much of the political shows as I can and sitting tight. Praying it will ALL truly turn around come Election Night 2008!
GO Obama GO!
Terri
http://www.islandwriter.net
PS>>>>I am VERY offended that one of your commenters here would even THINK (oh, wait, he wasn't!) to put McCain into the same category as a Democrat! McCain/Democrat = an oxymoron, if I ever heard one!
Terri
People might laugh at it unless they were on the other end of the bombs. That is why I wouldn't have laughed even before I knew these guys mean it.
And I don't doubt McCain will have good jokes. When they are written for them, a lot of people can do humor. He is probably fun at a barbecue also. Guess that's a reason to vote for him, huh? I mean the other guy might not be fun at a barbecue. Too serious. Too involved with figuring out the answer to problems. Looks at things more complexly than seeing everything as yes or no and nothing in between. That is how we got Bush with people who thought that way and why like Terri commented earlier, I take nothing for granted in the outcome of this race. The guy who says you can have it all for nothing, who happens to be the Republican again, he's the one the lottery voters click the button for their freebie.
What is going on now won't be easy to fix and if Obama does get in, we will hear whining because he's going to go for solutions, not placebos and this country has gotten spoiled on the easy money and easy government life. And if one more person says I want less government, I am going to scream. How do you get a freeway with less government? Oh I know toll roads and let some business decide the toll. You will pay. It's all a question of who you pay.
Boy Krugman had a good column about the poison pill that Bush has put into our economic structure. He and those who think like him don't want us to ever be able to fix our economy. What do they want instead? If McCain gets in, with the freedoms we have been losing, how the constitution has become only a sometimes document to care about, we may find out. I have a feeling a lot who are voting for a nice guy or so they believe, may find out otherwise. Someday these wars won't be able to keep being fought by volunteers and those who economically are forced into it because there are no other job alternatives.
You guys crack me up. So McCain is funny but Obama is serious so he must be a better president. I have seen Obama bowl and play basketball. Maybe you would prefer a three point shooting contest to see who becomes president. All of these activities are just side fluff. And to act like W. or McCain are just stuffed shirts. You only see one side of things. I mean Bill Clinton got elected because he could play saxophone on Jay Leno. It goes both ways for both parties. Some of us can see that and some cannot.
I agree with you about the dwindling powers of the constitution but remember it was the democrats that started this when they were pushing it as a "living document" that had to be tweaked to today's standards.
I was repeating to you what is the talking heads say and it might impact people that Obama can't bowl or that McCain is fun on a campaign plane. Many people think that the media's love for McCain is why they don't really go after his issues disparities. One day he's for it. The next against. Everybody changes their mind sometimes but he always changes his to suit right wingers or he hopes he will.
I didn't say McCan wasn't funny or that Obama was but I will never, before McCain or after him, find jokes about bombing humorous by anybody. I find it less humorous when they have the capability of doing it. McCain also thinks it's funny to make jokes about women's appearances as Chelsea's back in the days when she wasn't a young beauty but a growing up little girl who looked like a geek. McCain's idea of humor is NOT mine.
The media that I listen to which is mostly MSNBC or that I read which involves right and left wing newspapers all think of McCain as a hero. The one exception is Olbermann but he's the only one on MSNBC. And he always goes with what he thinks, not what he 'should' think.
I have not said Obama is perfect. What I say is that he's the best alternative we have. I said when I first wrote about him that I saw it as somewhat of a gamble. He might be one of the greatest presidents we ever had and there are certain characteristics that he has which could mean that but he also might not be good at all once he got the power. That is the risk of many of them. As for McCain you know some things he'd do if what he says now is a key to it but since he has changed his mind so often, maybe not.
I don't vote for someone because they look like they'd be fun at a barbecue or because they won't. I won't be at a barbecue with any of them but I like leaders who know how to work and I read recently that some of Obama's staffers get emails from him at 1 AM and that tells me two things. He does work later sometimes and that he knows how to use the Internet. Two pluses. One I know for sure is not true of McCain since he said he can't use a computer and the other is probably not true for a plus 70 year old unless he sleeps in in the morning. I also don't like how McCain pushes anything the right wants and use situations like our current as prices as a way to get people who can't think beyond their own wallet to vote for him. People who won't think long term but only short term results. So keep everybody safe will work with that crowd if they don't look beyond it as to how and whether it's even true.
Good post Rain. I pretty much agree with you on that one. McCain is hero because he endured incredible hardship in service to his country. Not because he jumped on a grenade to save the lives of his comrades. It is a little different, but no less of a sacrifice on his part. I really do not listen to the talking heads, so if you are repeating them, I would not know it. I have said it before I like much of what Obama brings to the table, but it worries me that now that he is the nominee that he is bringing the same old liberal rhetoric from the last 50 years.
If only there were somebody good running for president.
I have a question and perhaps you know the answer. How do we know he was a hero when a POW? is it his own word or were there others who said it? I know, because of all the stuff being made of it, that he followed military instructions by not allowing himself to be released before those who had been captured before him. At least that is what he has said and I don't deny it was true but since they went after Kerry so much saying he wasn't a hero and bringing out those on both sides of the issue, do we have others who know about what McCain did? I know he said he gave them phony info under torture but he told them something to get them to stop according to his own words. I believe him and don't know a reason to doubt him other than his performance since with his ex wife, with his political career, but is there more that validates his story from back then? He wrote a book about it which I have not read. There is some disagreement now that he claims he could have made admiral if he had stayed in the military but others saying he could not have. Frankly I don't care much about what someone did that many years ago but it appears to be what he's running on as it was with Kerry in '04.
Sorry I do not know that much about the history of McCain. I never thought he would get the republican nomination in 2000 or 2008. So I have not paid that much attention to him. I know his wife is much younger than he is and his kids are young for a man his age. But that is about it.
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