Shortly after getting home, and before I began to sorting photos from the trip (beautiful, artistic, creatively, intellectually satisfying, wonderful time), I began to rethink my saying I wouldn't be writing about politics for awhile. I decided maybe if I wrote about issues in a non-partisan way, I could write about cultural issues.Except, how do you avoid partisanship in today's climate? Can you discuss important cultural issues, the possible options without going into what the various segments of our society are saying or doing? I think, unless we want no responsibility for the world in which we live, we need to think about what is going on. There is that old saying about the frog in hot water that doesn't recognize it's being cooked until it's too late or... well you get the idea. It might not seem to matter to us today but it could tomorrow.
When driving home from our vacation to Eastern Oregon, I turned on talk radio for the first time. One of the more interesting discussions was about Dick Cheney from the author of the book [Angler]. The host asked how could Cheney go so against our values as a nation. The writer answered he thought Cheney believed he was expressing those values.
That stopped me cold. What are American values? I suppose some would say they are in the Constitution or [Declaration of Independence] but those are pretty general with a few key words like general welfare or pursuit of happiness, but how does that practically play out?
Do American values explain how a Democratic president could effectively confiscate their property and imprison (and that is what happened) Japanese-Americans during WWII to supposedly keep this country safe when there was no evidence that any of them had been plotting anything? Our government didn't confiscate their property or imprison German-Americans.
Did American values allow what we did to the Native Americans with the reservation systems that made poverty endemic? Did it keep women from the vote as long as possible? Did it allow slavery, only banning it after emotional books like Uncle Tom's Cabin and when the majority of Americans didn't want to own slaves? And even then keep African-Americans from having full rights for another hundred years?
We are told we are a Christian nation; so some would say our values are those of the Bible... except Christ would frankly be called a communist or socialist today. Preaching a gospel of prosperity? Where do you find that in the Gospels?
So if Dick Cheney, when he was fighting to tear down environmental regulations, to go to war in Iraq, to torture, when he was undoing Habeas Corpus, (read above link Angler for more on these) believed sincerely he was standing up for the values of our country, what are they?
We believe in Democracy but is that only so long as the vote goes our way?
Some would say our values are capitalism. They don't really get it that we don't have true capitalism. Check out this link from Huffington on Michael Moore's new film. From what I have heard he managed to make it nonpartisan and nail both left and right for what they have let happen where 1% of our people control 95% of the wealth. The Film Barack Obama Must See.
Some might say our common value is we believe in the power of the individual except is there any such thing? Do we as individuals have power? Do individuals in any culture anywhere have power without joining together for common purposes?
Even those who believe government is totally worthless, who want to end taxes, who went to D.C. to speak out, 60,000 of them, who mostly paid their own way and came from all states, did they come as individuals or to express their will in a group because there is power in a group?
I suspect the power of the individual is a lie, and it benefits those who know it's a lie. I guess if you are self employed, have your own business, you could say you don't need a group-- except don't you still need others to buy your product or services? The only real power individuals have is as a group but that doesn't then answer my original question.
What are our American values? And can we prove it?
(As usual, the sunflowers were blooming in Eastern Oregon at the elevations where they flourish. They make for one of my favorite subjects and as I sort photos, they show up many places.)
What are AMerican values ? I could say democracy and free speech and all, but I wonder myself sometimes. The sad part is that some people do some terrible things (a la Dick Cheney) while trumpeting "American Values" !
ReplyDeleteRain . . It is impossible to separate partisanship from our culture. One influences the other. The demonization of both antagonists by the other leads to war. Your monograph on American values is an example.
ReplyDeleteYou question how we could permit Japanese Americans to be imprisoned during World War II. The context was different then. There were predjudices that have long since disolved. There was a collective national fear in our society. Our media promoted the scare tactic of demonizing our then Asian enemy. Do you remember the buck toothed, slant eyed characterizations regularly on newspaper editorial pages?
Generally I think we've come a long way since then. But look back even further. When Europeans set foot in America they did the native Americans no good at all. They brought diseases that killed off half of them, and muskets that killed off half of the remainder. The NEW Americans took the lives of the indigenous Americans, and their lands, and they destroyed their culture. You say there is no excuse for such conduct without placing this dreadful history in context. It was a far more brutal and unfair world then. You are judging by today's standards.
You do the same when you look at slavery. It goes against everything you have ever been taught. Me too. The fact of slavery is awful, and the decades it took to abolish it - and for the time it took Americans to accept black people as equals, is a tragedy. But, come on, that also needs to be understood in the context of that time.
Rain, I was surprised that you think "Christ would frankly be called a communist or socialist today". I've never thought about Christ in terms of political systems. Isn't he represented in the Bible first as an infant and next as a young man on a mission emphasizing relief among the poor? In many ways wasn't Christ kind of a community organizer with an ambition to spread the word of God to the entire society in which he lived. I suppose you could say that the idea of sharing a fish with everybody present hints of socialism or even communism, but isn't that a bit of a strech? I think so.
Your essay moves on to demonize Dick Cheney who you apparently like even less than Dubya. Okay, politicians have always been fair game. History may deal with both of these men with a little less venom and more understanding. Personally I look back and see a reactive administration dealing with hot spots all day long. The leaders made many good decisions and many bad ones, but at this time in history I am glad they were in power - and not Jimmy Carter.
Lastly, you actually recommend Michael Moore's new film. This was a great disappointment to me. I really (and seriously) think you may have slipped a cog this time. Michael Moore is a detestable anti-American moron. He has proved it many times over. This is not a person that should be anyones resource for anything - particularly American values and government criticism.
Dixon
Well if you read the link on Cheney, you'd have a better idea of what I was talking about. It is a pretty extensive Washington Post report. One in particular raised my hackles on what Cheney did environmentally. If you know about him, you know he had more impact than most vice presidents during his first term but maybe not so much once Bush got onto him which is why he's still putting down Bush every chance he gets. Cheney directly influenced what happened in Oregon to the salmon on the Klamath River. Science be damned. All he cared about was to stop environmental protection period and it happened again and again with him. Bush undid every standard of clean air or water that you can find all in the name of profit. Read up on what happened in Charleston West Virginia and the children there due to the pollution in the ground water. If you look into what Cheney actually did, you might not be willing to defend him.
ReplyDeleteI appreciate you voicing your opinions on this. We know we disagree but it's always good to have someone represent the 'other' side. We are not going to convince each other. I have as strong of an opinion on what should be done and what has been done as you do.
I recognize that the past is the past but how many people say that our Constitution and Declaration of Independence are our bible so to speak? They were in place when all those things happened. They were in place when torture was authorized against all rules and defended even today by many on the right.
If we have a set of American standards, what are they and do we live up to them? That was the essential question. If Cheney when he dismantled environmental rules, got us into a war that made no sense, and all the rest, if he thought he was living up to American values, then what are they?
Oh and as for Moore, if you don't see or read about what he says regarding capitalism and the damage our system (which is a long way from actual capitalism) is doing to individual people, you won't know if he is speaking the truth or not. I didn't see his film on 9/11. Saw the one on guns and didn't like how he treated Charlton Heston so had avoided him until now when I have Sicko on reserve to look at when it comes up on my Netflix list.
I would like to know what you think Moore has done that is so bad for our country when it's pointing out things we have wrong. Is that unpatriotic? Did he lie? Are his films full of lies and if so which things? To me to speak out when we are wrong as a people is more patriotic than sitting back and agreeing with things that are clearly wrong.
As for Jesus's teachings, I am sure you know as well as I that he didn't reach a gospel of abundance but one of sacrifice. You have two coats, give away one. You heal the sick, give to the poor. The teachings of many churches today bear little resemblance to his words. Remember how difficult he said it would be to get into heaven for a rich man and to give away all he had. Definitely not what you hear from the corporate churches of today. He would be no more popular with them today than he was with the Pharisees back then.
oh and i was particularly mentioning the past examples to show that I don't see this all as happening in Cheney's watch. It is a long standing way of behaving. Some have learned from it and others would be back there for how they would live if they had the majority. That's the interesting thing about democracies. Majorities, right or wrong do rule. Theoretically our Constitution should have protected us from that happening but how often it has not...
ReplyDeleteI'm beginning to think that "American Values" are a myth. A facade corrupt politicans hide behind while they cheat the American public.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to comment on some of the things Bumps Stump said:
"Do you remember the buck toothed, slant eyed characterizations regularly on newspaper editorial pages?" Have you not seen the cartoons in the national media denigrating our president? There are worse characterizations floating around the internet. So I don't think we've come a long way.
As far as destroying the life and culture of native Americans, we stood by and watched as humans were slaughtered in Rwanda and the Sudan. Doing nothing to help is as bad as participating. It was a far more brutal an unfair world then? I don't think much has changed.
According to the bible, Jesus was God walking on earth in human form. The religious community, along with the government had him executed. If he came today and lived the same life and preached the same lessons the churches and the government would waste no time putting him on a cross, especially if he drove the money changers from the temple.
I think that if Jesus were here today He would have a monumental task ahead of him. The world is in a sad state.
ReplyDeleteRain . . This is for Wally who responded to my notes. I hope you are wrong about American values Wally. I've lived in various places around the world and not found any society with superior ethical and moral values. Of course it's a flawed generalization - but if we (Americans) don't practice civilizing values and try to teach ever higher standards to our children, our society will ultimately fail.
ReplyDeleteI really appreciate your comments. The atrocities you mention are happening today and everyday. The thought is so disturbing that we overlook these human disasters in order to stay relatively sane. The lack of clean water, food, medicines, etc. kills thousands every hour - and we, the priveleged few, do nothing. Well, almost nothing.
Wally, you made one comment that I'm not sure I agree with. You say it was the "religious community and the government" that had Christ executed. I am not a careful student of the bible, but my understanding is that Christ did stir up the resentment of competing theologies in the communities that he preached, but it was the government alone in the person of Pontius Pilate who condemned him to the cross.
Lastly, Rain, you go after Cheney and Bush irrationally just like Pres. Obama blames all of his administrations huge failures on them. This is ridiculous to the extreme. Mr. Obama has damaged America more in 3 months than Bush and Cheney did in 8 years.
The practice of the Christian Faith does not make one think about the political significance of Christ when he was alive. He must have been very significant to Herod who expected the Messiah to be a political threat to his power. In the times of Christ, Judaism was corrupt. So the idea of rebirth by declaring belief did away with needing to perform many mitzvah giving offerings to the priesthood. Meaning the early Christian didn't need the corrupted priests. The message was very political.
ReplyDeleteThe values behind our political policies need clarification. This is an excellent direction to take.
ReplyDeleteYou and I could argue up one side of this and down the other, Dixon, but we would not see it the same way and my philosophy here has always been that unless I have something new to add, I let what I said stand for my opinion. I find it hard to understand the right wing and how you could believe what you do but you do believe it.
ReplyDeleteIt's hard sometimes to grasp how we can all live in the same country, get much of the same information and interpret it so completely differently. Bush has said history will be the judge and probably that is accurate in that it takes time to get past the emotional aspect. To me Cheney has done tremendous damage to our country in so many ways but I understand good people see that differently.
I will continue to voice my opinion here off and on (next couple of blogs are not political) but it seems that most people have made up their minds what they believe and the truth they see is sometimes very different than the one I see. We all though must speak our truth and hopefully be open to new facts as they come along. I hope you did read the link in the Washington Post to what kind of shadow president Cheney really was for part of Bush's term in office. It is worth at least considering for you on the right.
I would appreciate it though if right wingers would be careful how you phrase your disagreement over these issues and what Obama is doing. It is not Obama who is doing this 'damage' you fear so much. It's we on the left who want him to do these things. We voted for him to do it. He isn't some shadow president, as Cheney obviously was, but a man who had issues he discussed ahead of time and is now working toward carrying out. It's what elections are about and the next one might change things but for now, what is happening is not his fault and it's unfair to blame him or cast him as a villain that someone might decide to then kill. It's a belief of many of us that we had 8 years of disastrous government and we wanted change-- change he clearly spelled out ahead of time.
your insights on the political aspect to Jesus were appreciated, Parapluie as were the other comments here-- agree or disagree. I very much like it when this comment place becomes a dialogue
ReplyDeleteIn regards the condemnation of Jesus: He was tried by the Sanhedrin (illegally) and convicted of blasphemy. He was turned over to Pontius Pilate because the priests didn't want blood on their hands on the eve of a holy day. Pilate believed Jesus was innocent and wanted to release him but acquiesced to the mob and allowed him to be crucified.
ReplyDeleteThere's an old saying that you shouldn't mix religion and politics, but it seems they have been mixed. It's hard to talk about one without the other.
I'm a firm believer in the separation of church and state and am dismayed by the influence that the religious right has on the Republican party and vice versa.
Any way, it's an interesting thread and I appreciate Rain's forum where these things are being discussed civily